Dear Sirs,
I have recently converted to the Roman Catholic Church after a five year
journey which included an intensive examination of the claims of both
Protestantism and Catholicism. I wanted to test the claims of each in the light of the
disciplines of history, biblical theology, philosophy, and systematic theology. Each
system needed to be consistent with its guiding principles and be able
to answer fundamental question of epistemology. As a former Southern
Baptist Minister (of the Reform branch) the further I pressed the
question, the weaker my position became and the Roman Catholic position
became stronger. During my later years of education at SouthWestern
Baptist Theological Seminary (91-97) I would ask certain professors, who
specialized in the fields of the above disciples how they arrived at
their protestant beliefs. I had investigated these fundamental questions such as, what
constitutes the canon (was one of the questions), I would get such weak replies that
I thought, are these the best answers there are? Please, allow me to
list off some of these professors, you may recognize their works, since
most of them have authored numerious books: Leo Garrett-Historical Theology, Robert Benard-Dean of Languages who had
passion for the study of the early church fathers as well as more than a slight interest in
metaphysical philosophy, Ted Cabel-Philosophy, Lorin Cranford-Languages
and doctrinal seminars, etc. There were some teachers which I decided
not to engage in apologetic matters because I knew that their particular
area of study was ill equipped for the task.
As I entered my preliminary Ph.D. studies I continued my inquires into
the validity of Protestantism. I often engaged in conversations with Ph.D.
students which entailed examining the biblical, historical and
theological claims of both Protestants and Catholics. So what's my
point? Instead of finding out how wrong I was and how I had
misunderstood the Protestantism, I found myself thinking how weak
and self-defeating the Protestant arguments were. From my first year in
seminary with Dr. McBeth's Church History class, I have come a long
way. Those little insights lead to larger insights till finally I could
no longer affirm my Protestant faith, I just couldn't, at lest with a
clear conscience.
What were my motives for becoming Catholic? Let me start off saying, I
would rather be a Catholic in my present situation then a Protestant
minister with a pedigree and life that for all practical purposes would
have been much easier on me and my family. Truth often comes with a
price. Now with that said it did cost me dearly, all my vocational
connections within my denomination became closed doors. Any pedigree
that I might have had with my denomination is now gone. My wife who is
a godly women, is not a Catholic and is not happy with my decision.
Needless to say this situation is difficult thing to add to one's
marriage. But the Lord has been faithful for so long I will not doubt
him now. At this point, vocationally I am walking by faith and not by
sight. So what are my motivation for becoming Catholic? I would like
to think it's because I have committed my life to the Lord Jesus Christ
and to the Church which is God ordained and Christ sustained, since the
Church is His Body. As one who has influence upon others I recognize I
also have a responsibility to the truth. We will all be held
accountable for what we teach to others. If Protestantism is not true
then I did not want to teach it, would you?
Let me ask you, would you honestly leave Protestantism if you knew it
did not reflect God's truth in its entirety? Would it be to hard for
you to face your friends and family, if you became a Roman Catholic? As
a man of God are we not to study to Word to show ourselves approved?
Are you so sure that you are right that you would harden yourself
against the Holy Spirit and close your mind so as not to be threatened?
God Bless
Wilhelm Schmidt
Wilhelm Schmidt <ichhaben@mcione.com>
Ft. Worth, Tx USA - Friday, September 11, 1998 at 06:06:02 (EDT)
Thanks for such an incredibly informative website.
What a blessing.
Just listening to Harold Camping on Family Radio discuss the Heidleburg Catechism and the Westminster Confession and thought I would try to look them up! It will probably take me years to absorb it all. Thanks for making them available.
Mr. Camping mentioned that the Baptist Confession of 1689 was very close to the Westminster Confession and the Heildleburg Catechism. He indicated that ,unfortunately, their position has drastically changed in the areas of totally depravity, limited atonement, etc.
Can you direct me to "like-minded" churches in the Washington metropolitan area (i.e. D.C., Maryland and Virginia)
Also, do you know how I can obtain a copy of the Baptist Confession of 1689?
Thanks much!!!!!
Dawn Taliford <merrassoc@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, August 12, 1998 at 01:27:04 (EDT)
Glad to find your WebPage.
My ministry is: Prayer-Life Seminars. It is an 8 hour biblical
study of prayer drawn from both the Old and New Testaments, but with emphasis on the teaching and prayer
habits of Jesus. I am an Evangelical Presbyterian by
ordination. The Lord blss you in your minstry.
In Christ,
Hugh L. White <>< Phil 1:3-6
Hugh L. White <HughLWhite@aol.com>
Corpus Christi,, TX USA - Friday, August 07, 1998 at 20:32:46 (EDT)
Very good looking web page. Looking seriously at coming into the BPC. Perhaps coming to Synod in Lakeland (my home area = Tampa). PCA pastor for 17 years. Grad. of Clearwater Christian College.
Blessings H. Fernandez
Rev. Henry Fernandez <RevHFdz@aol.com>
Los Alamos, NM USA - Saturday, June 27, 1998 at 16:12:27 (EDT)
I see you've done a lot of work since I last visited. Keep up the good work for the Lord.
Robert Young <RAY0324@aol.com>
Street, MD USA - Sunday, May 03, 1998 at 00:05:08 (EDT)
Very interesting page found it form the bpc homepage
would be interested in learnign more about this denom as I have just heard of it today
Tim Western <twestern@wvu.edu>
Morgantown, WV USA - Monday, April 20, 1998 at 15:22:55 (EDT)
Pastor Robinson, your site goes from strength to strength. I had better get busy and copy a lot of your stuff to make my site look and sound better. Thanks for the help your site provides. H.Carlson
Howard Carlson <defender@gte.net>
Palm Harbor, FL USA - Saturday, April 18, 1998 at 17:03:22 (EDT)
Hey there!
the humor page was really cute, and you've got some really slick Java (i think) on you home page re: the links. I'm going to build a web site for my church, Bay View Orthodox Presbyterian Church, Chula Vista, Ca. could your web master write me?
God Bless,
Ryan Johnson <><
ryan johnson <reconman8@aol.com>
sd, ca usa - Wednesday, April 15, 1998 at 01:28:47 (EDT)
Just surfin' the net and came across your sight.
I was hoping to find a Presbyterian Group that believed
in the millennial glory of Christ.
I was once a Presbyterian, but many years of wrestling with
the question concerning the binding and loosing of Satan in
spoken of in the book of Revelation changed all that.
To my surprise if we take the scripture as written and believe it
then all is clear. Satan was not bound by the atonement. nor
was he bound by the Lord over coming him in the temptation in the
wilderness in fact he is not yet bound. The Lord will bind him
at His glorious coming.
The thing that did it was three literal words in the entire text
1. The abyss
Turns out to be an actual place for demons and fallen angels
See Luke chapter 8.
The demons asked the Lord "suffer us not to go into the abyss"
and he suffered them not"
2. The thousand years (Uses the singular adjective not the plural)
Spoken of six times in the section used as the singular
adjective on all six counts. For almost six months we looked over
these words. We found that the Holy Spirit could have used
three words 1. Chilioi = 1000 singular in Number and an Adj.
2. Chilias = thousands and is the plural substantive
3. Murias = a myriad translated 10 thousand or an indefinate
number.
Some other interesting facts emerged:
The number 1000 used as a symbolic has no reference to time as
such but denotes the perfection of Gods testomony to man in
grace. It became obvious that the Lord would have us to understand
this term in the literal sense. If it were not so He would have used
either the plural or the indefinite number.
3. The nations are not decieved as a result of the binding.
This was perhaps the most difficult to get around in the
symbolic sense.
How are the nations decieved while Satan is unbound ?
How are the nations not decieved when he is bound ?
How will the nations be decieved when he is let out of
his prison ?
How will we know when he is no longer bound ?
Another interesting factor also came out.
The beast and the false prophet were cast alive ( interesting word
has no english equal) Lit: Alive Alive. These were destroyed
before the binding of Satan.
It is clear form the context that 19-21 Rev. is in Chron.
Order the following question arose.
If Satan was bound at the atonement when was the beast and the
false prophet thrown into the lake of fire.
These individuals never underwent physical death but
were cast ALIVE into the lake of fire and brimstone. If there
distruction is before the binding of Satan. Who was supposed
to be bound by the atonement of the Lord according to reformed
tradition. Then who were these individuals and where are they
now ? If these are already come and are destroyed then Paul's
words concerning their rise is pointless.
In closing
A good website
dispointed that the WCF is your mainstay.
We hope to have a website up and running soon
look for
www.thingstocome.net.au
Look forward to hearing from you.
PS Did you know that John Brown of Haddington believed
in a literal millennium. Check out the John Brown bible
from 1700 and it will be seen that many Presbyterian's did
believe in the Millennium.
Regards
Ross Stockwell <Rossu@powerup.net.au>
Brisbane. , Qld Australain - Wednesday, April 08, 1998 at 12:42:44 (EDT)
Webservant’s Note:
Following several attempts to reply via private E-Mail to Mr. Stockwell, the following response is posted here.
This has been done for these reasons:
- The E-mail address provided by Mr. Stockwell is non-functional. Further, I have verification that the domain “powerup.net.au” is
not registered with any of the major international and regional NIC agencies. Hence, the inability of any SMTP server to complete a successful DNS lookup.
- Mr. Stockwell has made inaccurate assertions concerning the beliefs and doctrines of Wilson Presbyterian Church as well as our denomination, the Bible Presbyterian Church.
- His stated disapointment (presumably as a former Presbyterian with eschatalogical views at variance with the traditional rendering of the Westminster Confession of Faith [WCF])
that the BPC as well as Wilson Presbyterian Church holds to the WCF as our doctrinal standard
of Christian orthodoxy.
- The World Wide Web, as the mode of storage and transmission of this document, is publically accessable by a wide range of people.
I would be remiss in my obedience to God’s Word (e.g.,
2 Tim 2:15;
Rom 12:2-18;
2 Tim 4:2;
1 Tim 4:13,16, etc.)
to allow the assertions and presumptions of Mr. Stockwell to stand unanswered, although I offer them with Christian charity and exhortation.
It is my sincere desire that Mr. Stockwell respond directly to me at jwmoore@jude3.org.
Should he provide a verifiable E-mail address through which private dialogue may be conducted, this note and the following response will be promptly removed from this web document.
— J.W. Moore (jwmoore@jude3.org)
Greetings in Christ, Ross...
By way of introduction, my name is Jim Moore; I host and maintain the Wilson Presbyterian Church Web site (http://www.wpc.jude3.org).
Thank you for your entry to our guest book. BTW, you had a double entry--I have deleted the duplicate entry--this was probably due to a possible lag in web server response time, heavy internet traffic or router congestion when you clicked the "submit" button and, not getting a response, activated it a second time.
I am writing in regards to your inaccurate assumptions as to the eschatological position of Wilson Presbyterian Church (WPC) and our synod, the Bible Presbyterian Church (BPC), as well as
in response to your disapointment that we hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) as our
doctrinal standard of Christian orthodoxy. You may be interested to note that the Bible Presbyterian Church (http://www.bpc.org) revised the WCF
to reflect our belief in a visible, personal and pre-millennial return of Christ--see WCF Chapter 33, also 32 at the URL’s:
- Chapter 33: http://www.wpc.jude3.org/beliefs/confessions/JWM_TWCOF(BPC)_33.html
- Chapter 32: http://www.wpc.jude3.org/beliefs/confessions/JWM_TWCOF(BPC)_32.html
To my knowledge, the Bible Presbyterian Church is the only reformed presbyterian group that firmly holds to this biblical position; hence, the necessary revision of the WCF.
Further, concerning a literal millenial reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, a portion of the WCF as adopted by the BPC reads, “...which word in Scripture in reference to the last things may
represent a period of time including the thousand years following the visible, personal and pre-millennial return of Christ.” (WCF 33, Sec. 1)
Thus, we are probably much closer to your own eschatalogical views than you have supposed a reformed church could be. As such, I would think that we do indeed represent your hope “to find a Presbyterian Group that believed in the millennial glory of Christ.”
Finally, I am sorry to note that you express little regard for the WCF. With your kind indulgence I would like to advance my comments on the necessity and value of creeds and creedal statements; they are submitted for your consideration in the spirit of edification.
I would, however, preface my statements with my observation that the intrinsic value and purpose of historic Christian creeds is dependent upon the genuine conviction of individual and corporate assent and affirmation to those statements of belief. I am grieved to note that the Church of the
Modern and post-Modern age has effected a wholesale demeaning of orthodox creeds and the Biblical truths they represent, and that of the WCF in particular. Often, in both confessional and non-confessional churchs (e.g., as in recitation of the Apostle's Creed), a verbal recitation of
creedal statements is expressed, but the necessary individual and corporate affirmation, genuine assent to belief, daily practice, as well as active promotion of those beliefs have been disregarded and sometimes dismissed in the spirit of this age.
All creeds must be open to examination with clarification and/or revision where necessary (as the BPC has done with a
more correct Biblcal view of eschatology, as well as with the relation of the civil magistrate to the church)--and I affirm that only the
Holy Scriptures are infallible, inerrant and inspired (cf. 2 Tim 3:16). Such a tenacious view of the doctrine of the
inspiration and authority of Scripture was universal to all of the Reformers and the various streams of reformed
thought (Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, the Anabaptists, etc.). In addition to the general sentiment of the Reformation era
with its view that the Bible alone is a complete and sufficient guide in matters of religious faith and practice, this
period is also a hallmark of creeds and confessions in which each denominational group articulated its own doctrinal
traditions.
Second, although the doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture is ancient, it's collorary--inerrancy--was not subject to
sustained review until the advent of higher criticism and the development of dialectical methodology. The time
between Luther’s “Ninety-Five Theses” in 1517 to Karl Barth’s “Commentary on Romans”
in 1919 may be accurately characterized as a period of increasing divergence between the intellectual and theological
worlds that enabled scientific methodology to be applied toward challenging the authority of Scripture from with the
church itself (see H.D. McDonald, Theories of Revelation: An Historical Study 1700-1960). There are also those
today, usually identifying themselves with the Evangelical wing of the church, who seek to speak for the reformed faith,
yet wish to avoid any serious discussion of inerrancy and its full implications.
A third factor of consideration is that of misconception or misunderstanding. Just as many Christians have a
rudimentary awareness of the Canon of Scripture, few understand its transmission, recognition, formulation, or
history--the same may be said for the historic creeds of Christianity and their value as doctrinal statements of
belief in addition to their practical use as pedagogical tools for the instruction of the individual believer and
the church in general. To that end, it is not surprising that many Christians do not understand or appreciate the
necessity and purpose of creeds so as to value their accurate formulation of God's revealed truths--afterall, many of
their churches and leadership no longer genuinely affirm or assent to them.
As a personal aside I would note that the Reformed confessions: the Westminster Confession of Faith, The Cannons of
Dort (a response to Arminianism), and The Belgic Confession of Faith; as well as the Heidelberg catechism, and the
Larger and Shorter catechisms of the Westminster Assembly are statements of orthodox belief of great value that were
distilled from the Protestant Reformation. The Reformers believed that:
- God gave man a written revelation of His truths;
- they strongly asserted that His written record could be known and understood;
- they believed that His revelation could be discerned and accurately formulated; and,
- they sought to glorify and exalt God.
This is the heart of the Protestant Reformation and the root of the four “solas” that were its rallying
point. They are, nevertheless, systematic beliefs discerned by man as the fruit of the careful and theologically sound
study and understanding of Scripture. I might also add that the Reformers, as a whole, represented a collection of the
keenest theological minds of the modern era.
That being said, creeds and creedal statements are not to be viewed as superceding or supplanting Scripture.
Rather, they have historically served to preserve, enhance, and define the content of orthodox Christian belief.
This is quite clearly seen in the history of the Christian Church as formal statements of beliefs were developed and
promulgated to confront heretical teaching and to serve as a guide to discriminate truth from error. Creeds and
systematized statements also serve a teaching function. There is Biblical evidence that the apostles used such
systematic patterns and forms of teaching to impart the truths of the statements they received
(cf. 2 Tim 1:13;
Rom 6:17;
Titus 3:4-8).
Later, the Church Fathers further confonted false doctrine and teaching as seen with
Apostles’ Creed (refutation of Gnosticism), the
Nicene Creed (a response to the Arian heresy),
Athanasian Creed (defines the doctrine of the Trinity),
the Definition of Chalcedon (response to certain heretical views concerning the nature of Christ),
the Canons of the Council of Orange (confronted the Pelagian errors), and the various
Councils of Constantinople (affirmed and strengthened the Definition of Chalcedon, refuted the Monophysite heresy, confronted the Iconoclasts grounded in the Nestorian error, etc.).
[The Ecole Initiative maintains a good source for the various Ecumenical Councils].
In all cases, creeds were formulated that faithfully applied the Scriptural admonitions of
1 Peter 3:15,
Titus 1:9,
Jude 3,
etc. to preserve and defend the beliefs of the faith as well as defining and clarifying fundamental Christain doctrine.
However, from the
7th Ecumenical Council of Nicaea in 787 AD wherein the wisdom of the prior council denouncing the
Iconoclasts was overturned, until the rise of the Reformers in the 16th century there was a pall of darkness that
settled over the Western Church as it abandoned it’s spiritual moorings (little wonder that period is known as the “dark ages”).
Yet, it was the Reformers and their devotion to His Word, their theological enlightenment as well as the subsequent
creedal confessions their fruits inspired that God blessed with the greatest spiritual awakening since the apostolic
era. Moreover, those creeds and confessions of faith affirmed and enhanced prior creedal statements of the early church,
and were not devised as "closed" documents. As doctrinal statements of belief, they were and are subject to
clarification and/or revision in the light of the authority of Scripture. As the oldest Presbyterian confessional creed in
use as a doctrinal standard of orthodoxy, the WCF has indeed been clarified and/or revised since its original
formulation. It must be noted, however, that many of these revisions have been effected by small denominational groups
who cling as tenaciously to God's Word and the heart of Reformation creeds--full Scriptural authority and inerrancy--as
did the Westminster Assembly, the Reformers, and Augustine who preceeded them (see Augustine’s The Harmony of The Evangelists).
To profess and proclaim belief in the Bible has never been sufficient to protect the church and its doctrines from
error--the whole of Christian history has provided more than sufficient evidence of that--this is especially true of
this century. Likewise, one should also note the prompt and aggressive manner in which the apostles confronted and
refuted false teaching and doctrinal error during their ministries as is recorded for us in the NT. Today, many churches and groups
have abandoned confessional beliefs, or (conversely) parrot them with no real conviciton or belief, or do not hold
those people who are in error accountable to professed beliefs. As such, in the absence of a consistently held and
defended system of beliefs that the laity can understand and affirm, the results have been a disasterous: widespread
and serious fragmentation within the visible church as well as denominational groups, a profusion of different gospels,
and serious doctrinal errors that have arisen from within.
Such abandonment and/or watering down of confessional beliefs/creeds, and the use of theological systems that see
little value in them is not to be understood as the sole cause of these woes. But, in the final analysis I believe it
will rank as a primary one. Sadly, the visible church is in desperate need of another reformation to correct the errors
that always arise from the departure of Biblical truth in faith and practice and a full subscription to its
authority. To that end, may that spiritual reformation begin within myself.
Well, Ross, I seem to have written more than I intended on the necessity and purpose of creeds and my belief that the
WCF (as modified by the BPC) represents Biblically correct orthodox Christain doctrine. Christian liberty is a
tremendous gift God has given us: let us apply that freedom with the love of Jesus Christ, as well as the love of His
truths and His Word.
Again, thank you for your interest and your comments. I have recorded your URL and shall be visiting your site when
you are on-line. You may also be interested in perusing my apologetics site (http://www.jude3.org) where Scripture and
Christian truths are defended just as forthrightly as this minor defense of the WCF and Christian creeds in general.
A servant of Jesus Christ,
Jim
"Magnify the LORD with me, let us exalt His name together" (Ps 34:3)
Beautifully laid out and packed with info and beatiful pictures, even of the pastor. How about putting in the pastor's family?
I know your favorite links site is still under construction, but how about putting in a link to WRS.edu? --Chris
Chris Lensch <lensch@wrs.edu>
Tacoma, WA USA - Friday, March 27, 1998 at 19:43:12 (EST)
Very nice Web Sight
Richard & Connie Shaw <RShaw82905@aol.com>
Grand Island, N.Y. - Friday, March 27, 1998 at 19:02:40 (EST)
As a person who grew up in Wilson and the Wilson Presbyterian Church (1945-1963)I am delighted to find this piece of nostalgia on the web. Who said technology isn't personal. Well done! I hope to take many tours of your site. Thank you for being there.
John Whetsel <John.Whetsel@BTInternet.com>
Tandridge, UK - Wednesday, March 25, 1998 at 17:25:07 (EST)
Great job on the Web Page, Dear Brother. Thank you Pastor Ben
for your work at Christ's Church and in the United States Army
Reserve Chaplaincy.
To the Members of Wilson Presbyterian Church: Thank you for
lending your Pastor to America's Army! May our Lord and Saviour
Jesus Christ continue to bless your work for Him!
Love in Christ,
Lou Alfieri, Sr. Chaplain
310th Theater Support Command, USAR
Lou Alfieri <lalfieri@erols.com>
Mechanicsville, VA USA - Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 19:56:03 (EST)
This is great!! I have been worshipping at a local ARP church and will be filling a pulpit at one of their churches this coming Lord's day. I am excited about the opportunity. All is well, our Lord is risen!!
Bill Adams
Bill Adams <wka@cbiinternet.com>
Salisbury, nc USA - Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 08:02:17 (EST)
God bless and keep you all. Great web pages.
Edward Paauwe <edpaauwe@camtech.net.au>
Fullarton, SA Australia - Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 03:39:28 (EST)
Nice job Ben!!
Thanks for your other messages, Maryeethel will write soon.
Maryethel & George Miller <acsmaj@ccsinc.com>
Gloucester, VA USA - Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 00:58:43 (EST)
say hi to Liz..hope she's well!
Art Baldwin
- Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 00:43:45 (EST)
Nice way to know who are members that are on the web, we love our church, Tom and Barbara Martin,
Barbara and Tom Martin <barbara@libcom,com>
clairton , pa usa - Saturday, March 21, 1998 at 12:02:09 (EST)
Congrratulations on this well done site. Like that picture of the church.
Robert Vandermey <Bobvan874@aol.com>
- Wednesday, March 11, 1998 at 16:36:01 (EST)
It's amazing how young we all look on the net. Is this virtual youth?
MaryJane Wolf <mjw2000@usaor.net>
Clairton, PA USA - Friday, March 06, 1998 at 08:00:35 (EST)
The website looks great! Can't wait for the camp pictures.
Casey Southerland <Casey.Kelly@Juno.com>
Pittsburgh, PA USA - Thursday, March 05, 1998 at 22:46:01 (EST)
Pretty neat! I will send you my picture so you can add it to the site.
Don Wolf Organist/Director WPC <dtrv69a@prodigy.com>
Greensburg, Pa. USA - Wednesday, March 04, 1998 at 18:59:55 (EST)
Test entry.
webservant <webservant@wpc.jude3.org>
Elizabeth, PA USA - Monday, March 02, 1998 at 20:39:28 (EST)
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